Discussion: Release 110 - List Enhancements

Release 110 - List Enhancements

With this release, we bring you an updated version of our lists feature. So far the lists were mainly made as personal wish lists, but now lists can be also publicly available recommendations or collectors suggestions, rich with comments, structure, or pictures throughout our markdown system.

Check out an enhanced example here: Alto Mijares Classics | theCrag

We will make changes to our help section about this new list functionality very soon.

As always, we have also fixed some minor issues foremost around performance and security. For some examples, please check our GitHub Pulse

If you like theCrag, please consider becoming a supporter with this release we also rolled out some more supporter benefits.

Oooh, I think that's just the thing for Fontainebleau!

The new lists look good - looking forward to learning how to make them.

I agree, that‘s a tremendous feature, looking really good.

Any news about your efforts to speed up the site/improve page response time? It‘s still sometimes a great pain to work with from my end.

We are phasing out the old tick types as they are not used in the new paradigm. If that was the only reason why you were using the old interface then it is time to move to the new.

There are a few reasons why I still use the old interface. For example https://github.com/theCrag/website/issues/4145, the emojis instead of stars, and that I just greatly prefer the single-page interface. But seems like I'll have to find workarounds for that now.

It will eventually be retired.

Yeah, I know … just tried logging with the new interface. Selected three routes, entered all the information using the modal switching back and forth between the routes, adjusting stuff. But then there‘s only a button „log ascent“ which logs the currently displayed route and throws away all the information for the other routes. So logging multiple routes is once again a pain. Is there a github issue for this? Or am I the only one who wants to log multiple routes?

I always use it to log multiple ascents at once. The log ascent does not throw away all other information. It might be the case on the very last route. So best practice is to log each ascent while going back and forth. If you go back to as saved ascents you edit it on the fly and do not create a new one.

Hope that helps.

Nicky Thanks for the reply. I tested once again and you‘re right concerning one point: pressing „log ascent“ only closes the modal when on the very last page. But then, it does throw away information. And you have to pay close attention because there‘s no visual feedback that it‘s going to do that, the button text is the same on all pages.

Furthermore, just experimented a bit in the sandpit: I selected 3 routes, edited informtion on page 1 and 2 of the modal, pressed „log ascent“ on page 2. Result: ascent is logged, button changes to „update ascent“. Then I switched to page 3 of 3, pressed „log ascent“. Result: modal closes, shows „ascent logged“; information on page 1 gets lost and moreover, the ascent from page 3 is nowhere to be found. I‘m on Chrome on mobile if that helps.

Nicky

I agree that something is not working correctly:

- image-1702766750490.png

See example:

I've logged three ascents using the new UI. Though, only two ascents are showing. The tick type and ascent comment of the second ascent are actually from the third ascent (route 'Pepestroika'), which is missing. The tick type and ascent comment of my second ascent are missing.

I believe the steps to reproduce are this:

1. Log first ascent

2. Log second ascent

3. Arrow back to second ascent

4. Arrow forward to third ascent

5. Log ascent

Guys, how are you able to use the new interface, why aren't more people complaining? I tried once again today because logging seconds with the old interface is no longer possible. And once again, the interface ignored two of my logs when trying to log 4 routes. Luckily I decided not to write any comments, otherwise they would have been lost.

Correction: it seems to have only ignored one of my logs, not sure what happened with the first.

I use it primarily because of tick-system improvements other than the interface itself. Separating the route discipline from the ascent discipline was enough to convince me. This is an improvement, but some things are still missing, e.g. https://github.com/theCrag/website/issues/4090

The interface does have some nice improvements too: e.g. route name override, private comments, difficulty feedback.

However, as Christoph Rauch says, the interface is not perfect. It is especially frustrating when combined with the much-discussed server latency - oftentimes there is a significant delay between the form appearing and being populated with the correct information. Ticking on a separate page would at least make it clear when the form is loaded. I would guess that it would also be better for avoiding missing ticks.

Hi Christoph Rauch I am not arguing the poor performance that is an own topic.

It seems to me that you somehow use a anti pattern or some false assumptions.

Using the back and forth < > buttons. Will not persist the ascents. It is just stored temporary for the ui. To persist a ascent you have to press the "log ascent" button on every ascent (or the "save ascent" if allready logged). The very last "log ascent" closes the modal and all not saved ascents are lost. You have an indicator top right (3 of 4) that shows you if you are on the last page.

I low hanging fruit would be to change the label of the last "log ascent" to something like "log ascent and close".

please don't get it wrong I am not saying that everything is perfect just a stat FYI: last month 44072 from 44226 new ascents with the new logging interface.

Nicky thanks, but I had already understood that after our last conversation about this topic. The issue is not about me assuming that ascents are logged when I press the very last "log ascent" button.

The issue I describe is probably the same that Dominik mentioned above. As soon as you use the arrow keys, the very last ascent is not logged, no matter what you do. I just verified it on sandpit just to be sure.

So most likely what I witnessed today was nothing new. The other issue might have been PEBKAC after all.

What you describe as "low-hanging fruit" would indeed be helpful. However, it still doesn't clarify that data is lost if you did not also log everything else.

The indicator on the top right says which page I'm at, but not how many logs are still missing. So at least there should be a warning if there are pages that have been modified by the user but not logged yet.

Concerning the statistics: thanks for the information. Of course only some power users are even aware of the fact that the old interface is still there.

Also, the statistics don't say how many people logged batches of routes instead of each route individually. But that large number is exactly what prompted my initial question. I'm well aware that many people are using it, so I can't understand why this problem doesn't pop up all the time.

And last but not least: I'm also wondering how many of those 45k ascents were logged by users who registered only after the launch of the new interface. ;-)

Christoph Rauch Because of this problem, I've decided to (unfortunately) change all my toprope flash ascents to a simple "tick" to avoid any confusion.

Dominik Which totally defeats the purpose of having a multitude of tick types, but I feel you.

the issue with the not shown gear style in the route list is clearly something that will be fixed soon.

Nicky The bug seems to be fixed, thanks.

So I've tried it today and the experience was a little smoother. I also got a custom CSS stylesheet running in Stylus (browser plugin) which replaces the emojis by stars (if anyone is interested, drop me a PM). One thing that still bugs me a lot though (except for not being able to just see everything on a single page, which I'm not getting back apparently) is that there's still no good workflow for logging multiple routes. I can either:

• Enter the information for all routes, going back and forth between ascents until I'm satisfied, but then I have to go back to the first page and press "log ascent" n times, where n is the number of logged routes. This feels unsatisfying.
• Enter the information one by one and press "log ascent". But then I need to have a close eye on the counter on the top right, because clicking "log ascent" on the last page closes the modal, so if I want to adjust one of the other entries, I have to do it before pressing the last "log ascent", then browse through the pages until I hit the first one that still has an unlogged ascent and continue from there.

Both are way more complicated than the single-page variant. I would propose that

• the final "log ascent" button shouldn't close the modal; instead, the "close" button should ask whether you really want to close it if you have unsaved/unlogged ascents. (With this failsafe in place, you could also make the Escape button close the modal without making people angry.)
• there should be a "log all" button that submits all pages (and validates that each page has been modified). Since the modal is already quite crammed, I would suggest that "log ascent" could be a split button with an arrow on the right, just like in the route list.

> the issue with the not shown gear style in the route list is clearly something that will be fixed soon.

I'm glad to hear that, but I'm not sure how I, or anyone for that matter, could have known that. Apparently, people like Dominik have already started to look for workarounds in the meantime, and Kai marked it as "Enhancement", so it seemingly wasn't treated as a bug (which I think it is).

If anyone does not agree with the labels applied on Github, please comment on the issues to vote for a change.

Could we have the ability to choose which CPR timelines to show on our profiles? Like checkboxes? I'd like to track indoor climbs and outdoor sport/trad.

The colours of the gear style badges seem to have been removed. They were very helpful. Was this an intentional change?

no this was due to a partial release on monday will come back soon.

All right, great, thanks.